The Squamata Report: Haleigh Poutre

Saturday, January 21, 2006

Haleigh Poutre









Innocence Lost


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Allison Avrett gave birth, in 1994, to a beautiful little girl named Haleigh Poutre. By the time she was a toddler her mother subjected her to severe abuse, and allowed a man to beat and brutally rape her. When Haleigh was six, Allison abandoned her at her sister's house and ran away to Virginia with a new boyfriend. Holli Strickland, Allison's sister, adopted Haleigh. Holli lived with a, now 31 year old, Westfield Massachusetts auto mechanic named Jason Strickland. A year later Jason and Holli were married. Jason was not the father type and soon started beating and mentally torturing little Haleigh. When reports were made to the Department of Social Services regarding both neglect and cuts and bruises on the girl's body, they were satisfactorily explained away by the Stricklands as self inflicted wounds and accidents stemming from the emotional abuse Haleigh experienced earlier in life. Yet on September 11th, four months ago, Haleigh was taken to the hospital with severe head trauma, cuts, burns, shattered teeth and massive bruises. It seems Jason and Holli decided to punch and kick the baby while beating her with a baseball bat. Haleigh was now in a coma.


Two weeks after beating her daughter, Holli Strickland went to her grandmother's home, shot and killed her, then turned the gun on herself in what was officially classified as 'murder suicide'.

DSS assumed custody of Haliegh and the State hired doctors who determined that she was in a persistent or 'Permanent' Vegetative State. Immediately after the doctor's findings, the State went to court to ask that Haleigh be removed from life support and "allowed to die with dignity".

Knowing that if the State was granted it's de facto authorization, his assault charges would become murder charges; Strickland challenged the State's custody on grounds that his years as Haleigh's stepfather qualified him to be considered her de facto parent, thus granting him custody and say over whether her Life support would continue.






The Court's Ruling: Death !
The Court decided this past Tuesday that Haleigh was, “in an irreversible and permanent coma, with the least amount of brain function that a person can have and still be considered alive.” Mr. Strickland's bid to be granted custody was quashed along with, it seemed, any hope that Haliegh would be allowed more than the four months to recover. When Strickland's lawyer, John Egan, requested that Haliegh get an opinion from a neutral physician, the judge said, "When you have consistent medical opinions, why do you have to find a doctor who might challenge that?" When questioned about her decisions in the right to life case, Judge Peel said,"This is not about the right to life, this is about the circumstance under which this person is allowed to die."

DSS Lawyer, Mrs. Stern was later asked about Strickland's fight to save Haleigh. “I think it was more of a way to stall the inevitable ... to protect himself from possibly being charged with murder.” She went on to say, “It's a bittersweet feeling knowing that she won't have to suffer anymore. But at the same time, it's the loss of a child.”
I am proud of my decision to fight for the life of Terri Schiavo. I still say, to this day that Terri was denied equal justice under the law, the Florida Courts were criminally negligent and non-compliant with a Congressional order to produce Terri for a 'De Novo' review. So as far as I am concerned, Terri was used by the 'Right to Die' crowd to set an illegal and immoral precidence. Yet in Haleigh's case I did not think she was given enough time to recover and did not feel as if she was afforded the right to an unbiased evaluation, and now, I have been proven correct yet again.

Two days ago, Wednesday Jan 18th, the Dept of Social Services ordered that the ventilator and feeding tubes be removed. I had not reviewed the medical reports and I made the mistake of assuming that the State was competent in their decision. If Haleigh could not live more than a matter of hours without the ventilator, I was prepared to pray for her speedy accent to God's loving arms. I would not want her to suffer anymore than she had to. If she was finished fighting, I said, let her go in peace. Knowing the possibility that the 'Right to Die' crowd was involved though, I was hesitant to make a conclusion......Until they pulled the plugs on Wednesday.


God's Ruling: Life !

DSS spokes woman Denise Monteiro said that 11-year-old Haleigh was found to have begun to breath on her own after surgeons inserted a tracheostomy tube in her larynx. She was asked Thursday if they would continue to remove Haleigh's feeding tubes. Monteiro said, " As her guardians we wouldn't even consider that now that we have new hope." Let's hold her to that!
So it appears that Haleigh is now breathing on her own and is responding to stimuli. Now we have an entirely new case! Now, Haleigh's case is similar to that of Terri Schiavo. Shy of food and water, Haleigh needs no life support. If Massachusetts lets the same death advocates come in and force their hand to remove her tubes, more than Haleigh Poutre will be will be lost. Another precidence will be logged in the favor of death over life.

PVS ~ vs~ The Fourteenth Amendment

First of all, the DSS is not completely to blame for not taking her away from her home soon enough. The Stricklands produced a psychologist who had been treating Haleigh for psychiatric disorders. He backed up their claim by stating that Haleigh was 'self inflicting' the wounds due to this disorder. Directly after the last DSS visit, Holli tried to put Haleigh up for adoption but beat her into a coma before following through. I don't fault them for that, I fault them for trying to save money by expediting her to the plug pulling ceremonies. As we have seen with Oregon's recent 'Physician assisted homicide' case, and the culture of death in America, our States are none too languid about processing these right to die cases. All a doctor must utter is "PVS" (which is becoming so popular it can now be considered an acronym) and justices say, "Pull the tube" before the attorneys take their seats. Fellow Americans, this has to change. When Judge Peel said that this was, "about the circumstance under which this person is allowed to die", she was dead wrong. We do not have a right to die. You cannot find it anywhere in the Constitution. Yet you can look up Section I of the Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution and find that we do have a 'Right to Life'. " No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;"

Choose Life !

We the people are suppose to be in charge here. We must write our Congressmen and Massachusetts's Congressmen and tell them, there is a difference between life support and basic support such as food and water. Tell them to keep their hands off our loved one's feeding tubes! When State governments do not treat life as the most important issue, liberal's own brand of phony, plastic, compassion trumps life. "Let her die in peace and with dignity!" Is the cry of the misled gaggle of America's great un-washed. That sounds so heartfelt and compassionate.....but it is a morally deficient conclusion. If you want her to die with dignity, give her the best medical treatments and leave the rest to God. How long should she have to recover? She deserves all the time she needs. One thing is for certain, she needed and deserved more than 4 months. Haleigh's improvements support that. What has happened to our sense of value regarding human life in this nation? How long will we allow our most vulnerable to be subjected to misguided liberal ideology? How long will we continue to suffer this culture of death in America? How long until it effects you or your loved one? Haleigh may very well die, even with the feeding tube. If she does, I for one, will be satisfied knowing she was afforded every measure to save her life. Knowing that someone in her horrible little world loved her enough to try and nurse her to some stable life is much more humane and "Dignified" than yanking the plug and tossing her in a hole. Don't give me that, 'She shouldn't have to suffer' excrement either. I'd be willing to suffer (under a doctor's care and medication) for four months, if it meant I had a chance to live!

The Good Life
" Oh but Ken, she won't have an acceptable quality of life." Hog wash !!!! I am deaf in one ear, I have a reduced ability to discern sound direction. Some could argue that my quality of life is reduced. To whom do we assign arbitration? Who should have the final say, when it comes to the end of life? Liberals say it should be the Judicial system. Let's see, is that the same judicial system that recently made it legal to take your home and give it over to another private citizen, made it legal to indiscriminately murder babies in the womb, gives a child molester 3 months for four years worth of molestation, and is joining with the anti-American ACLU to systemically remove our religious and civil rights? No thank you, I will keep my trust in God.
Please join me in praying for Haleigh. She needs and deserves our thoughts and prayers. While you are at it, you might petition the Lord to support those who fight to quash this cancerous 'Culture of Death' in our great society.

38 Comments:

Blogger Unknown said...

Thank you Mama. You are such a wise lady. You are also right about this man. He will only face assault charges if she lives. I don't care though, as long as she gets better. God will visit judgement on Jason as he sees fit. I just would like to see this baby get a little justice too. He needs to fry.

1/21/2006  
Blogger Unknown said...

Wow. Mountain Mama suggested I drop in. You are so very passionate about your beliefs. I was just wondering....not trying to pick an argument...have you ever taken care of someone with Haleigh's condition.
Tell me what that was like for you.

1/22/2006  
Blogger Unknown said...

I have had experience with special needs children before, yes. Have I had experience with children who are PVS or near to it? No. I understand that you said you were not picking a fight. I appreciate that, but it's ok to disagree. I love it when someone offers a condemnation of something I say as much as when they concur.

I have a passion for children. Some day soon I will tell the personal story of my son. I have always believed that the story God wrote in our lives would someday make for a great novel. As for the point I am not too sure about the comment you were on the verge of making. Were you going to object to my position and make the point that they can sometimes be a burden? Or were you just curious about what kindles my passion?
By the way, thanks for stopping by. If you are a regular at Mama's site, you must be a pretty smart lady. Please, feel free to stop in and comment on any of my columns, past or present.

1/22/2006  
Blogger Unknown said...

Your post raises alot of thoughts and emotions for me. These are far too many and far too complicated to type in a blog comment. I will tell you what I don't like is to be pigeon holed because of a belief I have on one topic.

I know what is in store for Haleigh. I know what her life will be like. I know that it appears no one cares about this child.
I also know that it isn't up to us to decide what is an acceptable quality of life.
I have a living will and a medical durable power of attorney. I did that for my family so that should the need arise, they won't have to make that decision. I already did. I know what is important to me.
Just one quick question. Would you put an animal down if it suffered the same experiences that Haleigh has experienced?

1/22/2006  
Blogger Unknown said...

Pam, thank you for opening the door a bit. I believe we agree on a lot of things.

Just to identify my self a little more and share my perspectives, I'd like to share with you some of the experiences that helped mold my opinion.

I had a cousin who was close to me on my mother's side who was taken by two of her family members into the woods and brutally raped and beaten. She was raised and loved by her grandmother. She was unable to control any of her limbs. She could strain to talk but anything more was too much to ask. Her words were reduced to the discernable "Yeahhh" , giggles and cries. She maintained the personality of a teenager late into her fifties. My wife, a nurse at the same home, cared for her until she died a few years back. My Uncle was crushed by three horses when he was 11 years old. My grandmother sat by his bedside day in and day out for fear that if she left him alone the doctors would try to pull his plugs and let him die. They had no idea if he would ever regain normal brain function. They were, for a couple weeks, sure he would die. He did die; he raised three children and saw his second grandchild before he did, but he did die. You see, I think you and I are on the same page for the most part. I too understand compassion. My mother past away in 2001 after an eight year battle with cancer. She was 46. I my self adopted a boy that I rescued from abortion. At 8 days old he stopped breathing and was saved by God's will through me. I struggled with that for the first 5 years of his life. He is now a troubled 11 year old. He suffered mostly because his mother and father were drug addicts. It may not rise to the same level as a constant care you would give to someone who is incapacitated. However, my continuous struggle to save his life has matured my beliefs about life. Life is not comparable to anything we can comprehend. It is the single most precious thing imaginable. It is God's gift. When Christ encountered suffering or even dead people, he did not act compassionately and help them die, he cured them and raised them from the dead. He had in his one hand the ability to create and cause death and in the other he held the ability to cause or create life. He chose, in every instance....Life! He came to give us life and so we may have it more abundantly. I can not help but feel that unless there is unending pain and misery, you do what is necessary to preserve every sparkle of life you can. You asked what I would do in the case of an animal who suffered the same as Haleigh did. I hope you don't find me to be too crass, my intention is merely to illustrate my belief.

When I was young I was raised on a beautiful mega-rural farm in east Texas. We were about 3 miles from our nearest neighbor and about 35 miles from the nearest town. When we had a sick animal, my dad, mom and grandparents would nurse them back to health. Sometimes we had animals that were so sick or injured that we knew they would be either tortured by the other animals or they would suffer greatly and die. Since we had exhausted every option available, we put the animal down as quickly and painlessly as possible. Later on, my parents moved closer to town and although we still had animals, they were a luxury not a necessity. When an animal was sick or injured beyond our repair, we took them to a veterinarian. Still, if nothing was possible, the vet would euthanize the animal. When we had the ability to put their lives into the hands of someone more qualified we did so. I am sure that if we could use a ventilator and feeding tubes we would have. Look at the story about the two dolphins who were given feeding tubes and nursed back to health the same week Terri Schiavo starved to death. That is part of the problem. Too many people blur the line between an animal's importance and that of a human. There is no contest. If you had to choose to save a cat over your loved one you would not hesitate a second. So how can we compare what we would do for an animal to what we would do for a human? We can never use the animal analogy in regards to human experiences because compassion for another human is not subjectable to barnyard conditions. We have a greater importance to mankind and God.

When Haliegh lays in that hospital bed and begins therapy, and dedicated people shower her with attention, she will continue to advance and recover or she will regress and die. I do not believe it is the right of doctors or government to step in and say, "She's not dying fast enough, she's suffering", and stop feeding her! If God wants her to recover he'll work that out, if he wants her to die he will do that too. I have a problem when we elect or hire 'people' to be arbiters of the quality of life. The sin behind murder is not because you killed someone, you can kill an attacker and that's not murder.The sin is because you take life as a decision to make yourself an arbiter of life. You would have in one hand death and the other life. If you chose death you are a murder! It is that simple, there are no gray areas, no wiggle room.....Life is God's, and God's alone, to give and only his to take. We would not dare think to starve her stepfather Jason. Even after what he has done, we would not think of it. Yet, we would conceder starving Heleigh? That Pam, I am sure we agree on.
Oh yeah and on the living will thing, good choice. If you have time, go Here and visit the 'National Right to Life' foundation and download the pro life will. You don't have to agree to it, but when you see how much it covers that others don't I think you'll be impressed. I hope I was clear on everything and if you do disagree please let me know. Brevity is not an issue here. This comment page can go for miles for all I care. I use them as an open arena to wrestle in the realm of ideas. I welcome long comments, just not vulgarity :)

1/22/2006  
Blogger Patty-Jo said...

Great post Ken. Lord help that precious child, and all the children that are hurt by those they depend on. Glad you're posting again. I've missed your wisdom and passion.

1/23/2006  
Blogger Unknown said...

You are so sweet Patty-Jo. Thanks for stopping in. I just hope we can get a handle on this before it's too late. God bless you and yours Patty-Jo.

1/23/2006  
Blogger Maggie said...

Ken,

it has been a long time since we conversed. I dropped by to see what you were up to, and I had the pleasure of reading your very passionate statement regarding Haleigh. My friend we are on the same page. If you go to my blog "Life and Death" (I have several blogs by the way), you will see my own comments. I will also post my comments to Against Euthanasia.

The issue here in Australia is that of the attempt to introduce RU486 as an abortion alternative. I am totally horrified that anyone could contemplate that particular alternative. They claim it is safe and effective, and I fear that they are not going to tell a group of vulnerable women that they are about to increase their chances of dying an horrific death through excessive bleeding.

I read your comment about what you have done regarding helping to save a baby from abortion. I would love it, if you could post your story on my own site regarding this boy and the fight that is ahead.

I am interested because I have a friend whose adopted daughter had a similar start in life, through the mother's heroin habit. This girl is now a heroin addict.

Please drop in to say hello.

Maggie4Life

1/24/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It didn't take long -- 15 to 16 minutes."
Daniel Salvi and his family surrounded his sister�s bedside Monday at Baylor Regional Medical Center in Plano and watched doctors take the 27-year-old off life support. Tirhas Habtegiris had abdominal cancer that spread to her lungs. Eventually, she was on a ventilator and her cousin took care of her.
The family said doctors told them they would have to remove her from life support in 10 days. When the family disagreed, the hospital's Clinical Ethics Committee met and decided to take Habtegiris off the ventilator.


When I first read this story, I was incredibly outraged. After all the weepy crap we heard from the so-called pro-lifers over Terri Schiavo, it becomes clear that these 'religious' types are pure hypocrisy on two feet - they are only interested in maintaining WHITE life.

Where were all of your Good Christians who interrupted your lives to go protest in Florida on Terry Schiavo's behalf? Why weren't you in the streets of Plano, Texas demanding that Baylor Regional Medical Center keep this woman alive?
Just like Terri Schiavo, Tirhas Habtegiris was on life support.

Unlike Terri Schiavo, Tirhas Habtegiris was awake AND aware of what was about to happen.

YucatanMan at Kos puts it into words that I cannot find:

THIS is the true face of "compassionate conservatism" and of the phony "culture of life". They don't give a rat's ass, as long as the insurance will pay the bill. No insurance? Good-bye, you die. She didn't have insurance. Ventilator treatment is expensive. Baylor did not want to incur any more expenses. So they removed a conscious woman from a respirator.
"They handed me this letter on December 1st. and they said, we're going to give you 10 days so on the 11th day, we're going to pull it out," said her brother Daniel Salvi.
Salvi was stunned to get this hand-delivered notice invoking a complicated and rarely used Texas law where a doctor is 'not obligated to continue' medical treatment 'medically inappropriate' when care is not beneficial. Salvi believes this would not have happened if his sister had health insurance.


"If you don't have money in this country, you're nothing. You're not a human being."
She wasn't white. Politicians did not speculate on her diagnosis via video tape. Conservative religious zealots did not picket the hospital.
Can you imagine what it must be like to know you are dying for 15 minutes? Reflect on a conscious person knowing that life-giving air was being cut off. Sit quietly for 15 minutes and contemplate how hopeless and horrifying that must feel.
Recall the abject hypocrisy of Schiavo: Bush rushed back to Washington (more than he did for New Orleans) to sign the Schiavo Federal Court review legislation. But, Tirhas Habtegiris died quietly, died for 15 minutes, without anyone knowing, without politicians manipulating her life and death, uncared about within the phony "culture of life."
Every time some wing-nut Republican politician trots out the phrase "culture of life", remember Tirhas Habtegiris.


Where are you phonies when a child is repeatedly abused to the point of death? Where are you when the child's natural father says pull the plug? Are you helping the family of a brain-dead pregnant women who was kept on life support long enough to deliver her baby and find recipients for her organs?

Or are you too obsessed with Terri Schiavo and can't let go even after almost a year?

Jesus would condemn you pro-life religious phonies as the hypocrites you are. You are not followers of Christ, you are racist followers of Mammon. You are the imposers of economic slavery to South Asians who share neither your wealthy culture nor your religious beliefs. Their only function in life is to make you wealthier.

As long as they don't cost you anything.

Jesus thinks you are all assholes. Go back to Hell from whence you came. And take your wealth with you - if you can.

Hmmm ... Eternity without wealth. That WOULD be Hell!

1/24/2006  
Blogger Unknown said...

Ok, first of all this has all the ingredients for a ' true to form' wacko propaganda piece. It has the ' Race Card ', the ' Economic repression' card, the ' Radical lunatic ' card, the new favorite ' Katrina ' card and the ' Your a Hypocrite ' card. It even employs the ' Support a cause you don't agree with to slam the supporters' card. Leftists fought tooth and nail to see to it that Terri was murdered. They never once cared if she was black, white green or yellow the leftist ideology is an equal opportunity murderer. They simply sought to support the euthanasia agenda. To use a race based comparison to slap Terri and her family around one more time just to illustrate hypocrisy when none exists is twisted and sad. I swear I thought I was reading Louis Farrakhan for a minute. There have been literally hundreds of people, since the Schiavo precidence, who have suffered the same fate as Terri, Tirhas and Haleigh. Media attention to the subject was zilch when the left got their way and Terri was murdered. Some bloggers have stuck with it but most were let down and discouraged. Race is not an issue here. Bloggers have not fought diligently to stop this madness simply because they feel beaten. We all gave it our best shots. We made all our best points and pulled our every resource. The President signed an 'ORDER' from Congress for the state to produce Terri for a de novo hearing, a right she has under the constitution, and they still refused. Now, we were also let down by congress when they did not enforce the order, I have been critical of their spinelessness often.

As for the Katrina thing, come on David, I know you are smart enough to see that they are feeding you garbage. I thought better of you. The author of the piece you sent me said, " Bush rushed back to Washington (more than he did for New Orleans) to sign the Schiavo Federal Court review legislation."
Bush went to Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. Billions were appropriated by the same congress that Hilary compared to a ' Plantation'. Bush cared about the lives and property that was lost. It was not his job to usurp the authority of two incompetent state and local authorities, it is covered in Amendment X and is defined throughout the body of the Constitution. If he had stepped in, the Democrats would have compared him to Hitler and call for his impeachment, much like they did anyway. To say he didn't care is to reduce your self to the level of those who say he is an evil man. It makes you a Mega-conspiracy-nut. The only ones who believe Bush is like Hitler and he's evil, are the crazy socialist kooks. Louis Farrakhan said Bush blew up the levees and that a mother wheel beamed him up so the voice of Elijah Muhammad could tell him that the President and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, under the direction of Gen. Colin Powell, were plotting a war against black people. They say these crazy, unbelievable things and yet somehow find parrots to regurgitate it. There certainly is a race problem in America, when innocent people like Terri, Haleigh and Tirhas lay helpless waiting to be murdered, crazy people are gaining followers making a race game of it. To top it off, the same ones waging the race war are the ones who fought to set a precidence that would support such action. This kind of thinking makes me sick, David I expect better from you in the future buddy. I know you are too smart to align yourself with this. Please tell me you denounce this as the rubbish it is.

Oh, and PS, equally credible physician specialists found that Terri was not PVS and could feel pain. Credible evidence pointed to abuse and neglect but was ignored That was a cold blooded murder on many fronts. As for Tirhas, she is one of the many to come, black, white or what ever. Until we rein in this runaway judiciary we will continue to see innocence and basic rights lost. And until people stop repeating this kind of garbage the ' Culture of Death ', as a liberal agenda, will continue to consume us, everyone of us.......black and white!

1/24/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I truly think we live in a world (or nation) that has it's priorities screwed up from back to front.
Why doesn't anyone pay attention to all these abused and neglected children until it's almost too late or until they happen to conveniently fall into the political spectrum? It makes me absolutely sick to think that we squable over this poor young girls life and spend trillions over seas to fight a "war" on terrorism, instead of subsidizing our funds to help the FBI or other government organizations, state and federal, to capture and detain these monsters who hurt children, while maintaining the fight on terrorism utilizing covert operations instead of a highly unneccessary ground deployment? (I'm in total agreement with Senator John Murtha, BTW.)
Instead we want to go heads up with a country that never attacked us, ignore the cries and pleas of thousands of now orphans and other unfortunates in the Lousiana area, and turn our backs on all the misappropriated funds (not to mention all the abused children and dead soldiers and dead Iraqi civilians) and tell Mikey Brown that he's doing "a heck ova job."
I'm so disgusted and sick of this hypocrisy! And no I don't think I'm off topic here. This still addresses the fundamental issue of why does anyone claim to be a part of the "culture of life" when he has executed more prisoners in the history of the country, sent thousands of men & women to die for nothing, yes I said it nothing. My best friend is a decorated Marine (and a Republican) and says that his combat experience was the worst four years of his life, and that if he would have died, he would have died for nothing.
Let's spend more time being more responsible about our own communities and remaining vigilant about abusive parents. It's time to grow up, America, and turn our attention and tax dollars where it's truly needed.
Why don't you (everybody) go down and give a suffering child in the Louisiana area and blanket, a warm meal and a place to go for a while. Oh, because they're black?
I have not seen one missing report or hands accross America for any black girls gone missing or abused young black females. They have all been white.
Think I'm just playing the race card? Name one, name one black person that the so called "Culture of life" people are advocating and trying to save. Just ONE and I'll shut up about the subject.

1/24/2006  
Blogger Maggie said...

David,

I think that you suffer from propaganda disease. You make a lot of comparisons that simply do not fit together.

The failure of the department of social services to act prior to Haleigh being bashed to death, is a failure that is experienced all over the world. The people who staff those departments do not have a clue.

In Haleigh's case, the aunt and her husband got away with hurting Haleigh because of her past history. The child had suffered as a very little one. As a result of that suffering she has psychological problems that were getting attention. It could in fact be true that Haleigh was self-inflicting some of her wounds. It is possible that she was cutting herself and banging herself against furniture, perhaps to get attention. A case worker who was investigating Haleigh's case might have easily come to the conclusion that the aunt and her husband were doing nothing to hurt Haleigh.

All of the issues that you have raised are nothing more than side issues designed to take attention away from the real issues. Neither the outcome of Hurricane Katrina, or even the death of someone who is dying of cancer has anything to do with Haleigh, who is not dying.

The case you mentioned is not one that should be compared to either Terri Schindler, or to Haleigh Poutre. There is a very big difference that has nothing to do with the colour of a person's skin. Last year my sister died as a result of having undiagnosed bone cancer. She was not a black person, we are a White Australian family. However, my sister had lost a lot of weight and her body was shutting down. The reality of the situation happened to be that nothing was going to stop her from dying, and she fought very hard to remain alive.

One has to be realistic in distinguishing between people who are dying as a result of such illnesses as cancer, and those who are simply physically disabled (which was the scenario for Terri). Terri was not on life support. She was not attached to breathing equipment, unlike Haleigh, who had been attached to a ventilator up until the day of the court decision. Terri was able to be fed, but her husband would not allow it. Terri's estranged husband refused to allow her to be taken into the open, out of fear that she would be photographed and he would be exposed as a fraud. Terri's estranged adulterous husband refused permission to allow any form of filming of Terri so that people were being left with the wrong impression of her condition. What we did get to see made him furious because it was sufficient to expose him as a liar.

Now back to your race case, for in this case, the woman was dying, and the hospital obviously believed that further treatment of this person was futile. Well buddy, that is what happened to my sister, for she was refused chemotherapy treatment because such treatment was futile.

Yet, I have another more extreme example, and it is one that is the catalyst for my passion on the subject. It concerns the fate of my white nephew Nathan Lambert. He died prior to birth. The attending doctor made a series of bad decisions that ended Nathan's life. The only thing that was wrong happened to be that the umbilical cord became wrapped around his neck as he had struggled to attempt to be born. When the doctor said that the baby's heart beat was weak, he should have ordered a caesarian section on the spot. Instead he allowed the baby to die in the womb and then forced my niece to undergo the vaginal delivery of her dead baby. It was an unnecessary death.

Thy hypocrites are those who try to make a case when people are in fact dying. Terri's fight was for a woman who was disabled. She was not dying. There is a difference in the scenarios. You cannot force someone who is dying from cancer to remain alive. It is pointless filling the family with false hopes.

So I suggest that you stop the hypocrisy and seek the real facts before sounding like an idiot when you write about subjects where you have so little in the way of understanding.

1/24/2006  
Blogger Unknown said...

Thank you Maggie, I would love to tell my story, if you can give me a couple days I will get it to you. It is great to hear from you again. I know what you mean about the 'Mourning after' pill. It struck me, when they first introduced that Chemical, Mifepristone, they gave it a cute name. They did not call it something benign such as Fen Fen, they called it RU486. Now anyone who's ever played the road game where you make words or phrases by looking at license plates can decipher this one. It's Are You For Eighty-Six, Eighty-Six being the slang for throw away. Now you can just picture the smug grin on the developer's face when they made that one up! It gives you a little glimpse of their true agenda.... Murder. The throwing away of a, yet to be born, human life. I understand their argument, "They are taking it the next morning and surely you can't claim that's a baby." Well yes, there are some of us who believe that a baby is a person at the moment of conception.

Anyway, the good news is that I hear there is a group called 'organization, called Michigan Chooses Life' that is pushing a ballot initiative to bring to a vote this year that would designate a person 'Alive' at the moment of conception ! It's chances of getting it on the ballot are pretty good and if that happens....it has a fair chance of passing. I am crossing my fingers. I see a major battle over this not so far down the road.
I'll see ya soon Maggie.

1/24/2006  
Blogger Unknown said...

Wow Maggie,
Thanks for your comment. You, as have I, beat these facts into the opposition for weeks and in some of our cases, years regarding Terri's case. Unfortunately they do suffer from propaganda disease. The ones that confuse me the most are the Liberals who call themselves Christian, yet they think there are different kinds of Christians. They think you can be pro Homosexuality, pro euthanasia and pro Abortion and be Christian. I can't figure it out. I guess I could be pro Infidel, pro women's rights and pro Democracy and be the next Shah.
I was about to make some of the points you gave but not as well as you did, so I will let you handle that rebuttal. But what gets me is that Liberals (who are always angry... aren't they?) believe that there are two versions of the truth; there is their version and then there is the truth. It does not work that way. There are no versions of the truth.
Oh and the cancer thing, my thoughts exactly, you can't compare a woman dying of cancer to someone who's been injured.

You now should see David,the people you are listening to are misleading you, they feed on people with big hearts and they incite them to regurgitate their lies. If you stop and think about it you have to see the error. As for the friend in the Marines, for every one who holds his point of view there are hundreds who would disagree. We did not go in there for a lie! Read some of my earlier posts like WMDs; Leftists cry foul but they didn't always, and Bush was right about WMDs. You have to shake that information gathering routine of yours. Maybe a little more 'diverse' research is needed.

1/24/2006  
Blogger Maggie said...

Ken,

There is more to RU486 than Mifepristone. The Mifepristone is about 60% effective. It is a progesterone inhibiter. That means the women have to return to the clinic and are given another type of pill called Misopristone. This pill also goes under the name Cytotec. It is a prostaglandin. The manufacturer of this drug actually states that it should not be used for the purpose of abortion.

I have been blogging on the dangers of RU486. You can find my blog here: http://againstru-486.blogspot.com/
I have at least two other blogs on the same subject, through Blogspirit and Blogsome, and I am not sure where else I have set up the blogs ;-)

I am totally alarmed because the ABC news media are plugging away trying to get the sympathy of the public in the push to bring Mifepristone into the country. They are running some very misleading stories about the other uses for Mifepristone, and of course these other uses are not an issue, and not the reason that the importation of Mifepristone is at the discretion of the Health Minister.

There is an amendment before the Australian parliament that is being pushed by some rather ignorant and outspoken liberal women (Australian Democrats and Greens are extremely ignorant in my view) who are attempting to change the legislation so that the responsibility falls back into the hands of the department of health. If that happened it would be easier for access to be granted to doctors in remote areas. The doctors who are pushing for the importation of the drug are not bothering to tell women of the extremely high risks that they are running if they go ahead and have a medical abortion.

As you are aware I am not in favour of abortion on demand. However, a surgical abortion is one helluva lot safer the using the combined drugs of RU486. Women are not being told about the ones who have bled to death.

This is a serious, if not critical situation because women's lives are at risk if they are not being told the truth about this drug.

Maggie4Life

1/24/2006  
Blogger Maggie said...

Ken,
you might also visit the following locations:

http://sayingnotothecultureofdeath.blogspirit.com/

and

http://ru486dangers.blogsome.com/

These are the locations of two more of my other blogs.

I have another blog in the wordpress called the Facts about Bulimia.

Maggie4life

1/24/2006  
Blogger Unknown said...

You are so correct and thank you for all the information. You are right that it takes Misoprostol later, to make it work. Only half of those paying $500.00 for the procedure have an abortion within 24 hours of taking the Misoprostol. The other half can plan to wait weeks. You are also right about this not being a safe procedure too. I followed the link to your page but the site was down. It had a green screen and nothing else. I reloaded twice. I figure you are prob. working on it. I'll try again tomorrow. By the way, if you are still here David, I do believe that abortion is an option when the life of the mother or baby is at risk. Anything beyond that is murder. Compassion does not change a fact; killing an innocent human, devoid of any necessity, is murder.

1/24/2006  
Blogger Unknown said...

Ok I have those links, it is pushing 10:00 here and I have to sleep, 5:00 comes early. I will have more time to spend there tomorrow. Thanks for your visit, I hope you can pop in like this more often.

1/24/2006  
Blogger Maggie said...

The biggest risk to a mother is that of an ectopic pregnancy. Once again ectopic pregnancy is contraindicated for medical abortion. The end result of allowing this to happen is death to the mother. There is also an extremely high risk of infection and the mother bleeding to death from the use of RU486.

There are very few cases where the mother's life is truly at risk. Those few cases usually involve ectopic pregnancy, and in such a case the ovary is usually removed.

However, I want to highlight something that is different. It involves a case of road rage, where a heavily pregnant woman was attacked by a man in road rage. He forced the car into an accident. As a result of that accident the baby was killed by the impact and her womb was ruptured so that she cannot have any more children. I believe that this is an act of murder. However, in the current climate of bad legal definitions, the chances of bringing about a murder conviction over this action are virtually zilch.

The unborn are vulnerable because they are considered by our society to be sub-human. The profoundly disabled, such as Terri Schiavo was disabled are vulnerable because they have lost the ability to speak for themselves. We know that in the Schiavo vs Schindler case, the husband lied in order to bring about the murder of his wife (I am not deviating from my belief that this was a cold blooded and calculated murder)and then there are others such as Haleigh Poutre, where she is left without an advocate because even her own biological mother wanted her to be dead.

The vulnerable within society need to know that they have real advocates who are willing to speak up on their behalf. They need to have support from their families, rather than facing a sad and lonely future. Haleigh is more vulnerable than most because of the abuse that she had endured that has been of a physical and sexual nature (not by Jason Strickland but by her own mother's former boyfriend when she was a little tot). Without a doubt the child has suffered on a psychological level, and her suffering is increased because of the rejection that she has received from nearly every adult who has come into her life.

Children like Haleigh need to be protected from the predators of our society so that they get the fighting chance that they deserve. I pray that there will be a miracle for this child and that she will pull through. She has a fighting chance and no one has the right to give up and force her to die.

This is not about being black, white, Hispanic, French, German, Australian, or even Calathumpian. It is about human life in general. After Terri died we went to bad for a woman whose husband wanted to pull the plug. That woman was Hispanic. Her husband had made a unilateral decision, and it was bloggers like us who helped to save her from certain death via starvation. We also went in to bat for the little black boy in New York who was also destined to die because of the nature of his illness. It was already too late for him, but at least the judge in the case granted the stay that meant he was not taken off life support in order to have his organs harvested.

I want to continue the fight, not just for Haleigh's sake, but for the sake of all who remain vulnerable in our society.

1/24/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

(From Wikipedia.com, which is an unbiased, online encyclopedia.)

PVS diagnosis ruling – Schiavo IV

Left: Scan of normal 25-year-old's brain; Right: Schiavo's 2002 CT scan at age 38. The bright dot is an electrode that was implanted as experimental treatment in 1990.In October 2002, on remand by the Second District Court of Appeal, an evidentiary hearing was held in Judge Greer's court to determine whether new therapy treatments could help Schiavo restore any cognitive function. In preparation for the trial, a new computed axial tomography scan (CAT scan) was performed, which showed severe cerebral atrophy. An EEG showed no measurable brain activity. The court viewed a six-hour tape of Schiavo and concluded that her vegetative condition was factual and not subject to legal dispute.

In accordance with the 2nd DCA's instructions, five doctors were selected to provide their expert testimony to the trial: two by Schiavo's parents, two by Michael, and one to have been selected by mutual agreement of the parties:

The Schindler family selected Dr. William Maxfield (a radiologist) and Dr. William Hammesfahr (a neurologist).
Michael Schiavo selected Dr. Ronald Cranford and Dr. Melvin Greer (both neurologists).
The parties having failed to agree, the court selected Dr. Peter Bambakidis (a neurologist).
These five doctors examined Schiavo's medical records, brain scans, the videos, and Schiavo herself. Drs. Cranford, Greer, and Bambakidis testified that Schiavo was in a persistent vegetative state. Drs. Maxfield and Hammesfahr testified that she was in a minimally conscious state.

As part of the court-ordered medical exam, six hours of video of Schiavo were taped and filed at the Pinellas County courthouse. The tape included Schiavo with her mother and neurologist William Hammesfahr. The entire tape was viewed by Judge Greer, who wrote, Schiavo "clearly does not consistently respond to her mother". From that six hours of video, the Schindlers and their supporters produced six clips totaling almost six minutes and released those clips to public websites. [26]

Judge Greer ruled that Schiavo was in a PVS, and was beyond hope of significant improvement. The trial court order was particularly critical of Hammesfahr's testimony which claimed positive results in similar cases by use of vasodilation therapy, the success of which is unsupported in the medical literature. [27] This ruling was later affirmed by Florida's 2nd District Court of Appeal, which stated that "this court has closely examined all of the evidence in the record," and "we have...carefully observ[ed] the video tapes in their entirety." The court concluded that "...if we were called upon to review the guardianship court's decision de novo, we would still affirm it." (This decision by the 2nd DCA [28] came to be known as Schiavo IV in later rulings.)

Hopefully MEDICAL FACTS might clear up some of this case once and for all for you Right to Lifers(right to suffer, if you ask me.)
I going to write a living will right now, so when I go into a coma from debating all of your nonsense, non of you activist freaks can make sure I remain in a constant state of pain and suffering for your own selfish political purposes.
You should be ashamed of yourselves.

1/26/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay, Maggie, you still did not answer my question.
Can you name one black person that is in a similar medical condition?
No you can't, you completely avoided my question and answered it by going off and calling me an idiot.
And Ken, as much as I love and repect your humble opinions, you ignored the entire content of this article (of which I did not write, but agree with most of it) and went straight on to something that Douche bag Limbaugh would say, by saying wacko, and this is crazy and blah blah blah, never taking any of it seriously.
Now Maggie,
So I sound like an idiot for having different views than yours, eh?
Let me tell you something, ma'am, you sound like a fascist bigot hypocrit.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume that you are for the death penalty, but you claim to be a part of this "culture of life"?
Someone please explain to me what this "Culture of Life" is exactly.
The reason I brought up the war in this post and the way it relates is because Bush is saying that he's all about this "Culture of Life" when he's sending our young men and women to die over seas for nothing, is responsible for more executions than ANY OTHER GOVERNOR in the HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES, doesn't care about black people that are dying (Thank you Kanye) but when the "devious" Mr. Shaivo wants to privately end his estranged wife's sufffering and let her die in peace, it's all hands accross America for someone that if they were concious would tell all of you "Lifers" to go away and leave her alone.
Oh, and when you said that Terri's husband didn't want Terri out in public in fear that someone might video tape her and "expose" him as a fraud, guess what?
There are SIX HOURS OF VIDEO OF TERRI that was taken by the court to determine whether or not Terri was in a vegetative state or not for the courts (ultimately it was concluded that she WAS unresponsive by the majority of 5 specialists) so what exactly was Terri's "fraudulant" husband trying to hide again?
Nice try, space girl.
And I'm sorry for your personal loss, but just because you had a personal experience does not make you the elemental masiah of this issue. You're still a hypocrit, and you can't make me all weepy eyed and agreeable just because you had a relative die from some particular circumstance, and then you turn around and use them to make a point about your politics. Go write a freggin' book.
I've lost countless friends and relatives in all sorts of ways, but I would never exploit them to make a point of where I stand politically, you insensitive jerk.
Don't ever tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. I would never point to an issue with out doing my research. You don't make any sense at all, the only person you care about is yourself, so next time you want to start name calling like my 7 year old stepson does, make sure your head is all the way out of your ass before you open your mouth, because it sounds like you're full of sh--excrement.

1/26/2006  
Blogger Maggie said...

David,

I am not going to waste time going over evidence that was provided by doctors who are paid to come up with a certain death diagnosis. Cranford as far as I am concerned is a quack. His diagnosis was crap.

I have already done the research into the Schiavo case. Terri was not given the opportunity to recover. The electrode was experimental and it should have been removed.

From what I saw in that video, Terri was minimally concious. She was not dying. She did not have bulimia. She did not suffer a heart attack. The low potassium can be explained in a different way.

There is not one good reason as to why Terri Schiavo was forced into a 13 day agonizing death. That is the issue. The dx is not the issue. Other people have come out of the "PVS" state and if Terri had received proper therapy that was due to her, I am sure that her prognosis would have been a lot different.

The issue should not have been about whether or not a husband/guardian who was living in an adulterous relationship had the right to order the death of his wife. In fact the adulterous relationship should have been a red flag that this man had an ulterior motive to kill Terri.

There is sufficient evidence to suggest that Michael Schiavo attempted to murder Terri on numerous occasions. This evidence includes a report that was handed to the department from medical staff at the hospital where she was taken for emergency treatment. Michael Schiavo has even attempted to sue that hospital for saving Terri's life. The report that was filed proves that there was more than one occasion when Michael Schiavo attempted to kill his wife through the attempted denial of antibiotic treatment. The department did not do the proper follow up because all attempts at proper investigation were stifled by Frank Nagatani and Bernie McCabe.

There has been a massive cover-up in the Schiavo case. Criminal charges should be filed against Schiavo, Greer, Felos, McCabe and Nagagini and that is just for starters.

So I am simply not interested in your word games on the issue.

What is important now is that Haleigh Poutre is given the opportunity to live as she deserves. She is now in a children's rehabilitation hospital. Everyone had been too hasty in attempting to make decisions about this child's welfare.

Oh and I am also not interested in your tactics of attempting to divert this subject into other areas that have nothing to do with the fight to preserve the life of one 11 year old girl. Her life is precious. If she was black or Hispanic, her life to me would be equally if not more precious.

Get with the program and do the correct homework and that does not include a faulty report in Wikpedia

1/26/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maggie,
I understand how this issue affects you so, and you are right, the issue at hand is that Haleigh needs all the help she can get right now.
I am just at this fork in the road about the debate as a whole.
You see - when I see people arguing about the right to life, abortion, etc, I still do not fully understand the rights' issue with the left and their views on these particular topics.
Nobody wants people to suffer. Nobody wants people to die.
PERIOD.
So why all this fevered argumentation? (I'm guilty, too.)
I'm trying really hard to be completely objective of these issues and how they affect us as a culture and society and as a country.
As far as the wikipedia thing goes, my role on this web page (well, from now on, I promise) is to leave as many facts that I can collect in accordance with any issue. I am cathartically experiencing a journalists existance(which is probably why mainstream media is so biased).
I took the facts from the Shaivo case and dropped them on this comment board, and as we can clearly observe our opinions headed in opposite directions. My wish now is to figure out why.
And as far as "getting with the program"...uh, yeah...
something tells me that if you believed the sky was red and I looked it up, pointed to it, provided you with a swatch and told you time and time again that it was blue, you would still say and believe that it was red. And all I could do would be to say "okay, Maggie, that's what you truly believe, so I'll just have to respect your opinion."
Get with the pro ---OH! YOUR program...Thanks, but no thanks.
I'll be sending my letter and donation to savehaleigh.com.
You should (if you haven't already) "get with the program" and do the same.
I respect your opinions, and I really think (maybe I'm just being naive here) that we just may have the same objectives in the end.
Peace and love always,
David

1/27/2006  
Blogger Maggie said...

Bryan,

that was a very well thought out comment. Thank you for being so clear headed.

I live in Australia. I am Australian. I am a white Australian with an Anglo-Celtic-Saxon backgroud. My great grandfather emigrated to Australia from Saxony in Germany. Does that make me believe that I am a member of a master race, just because I am white? No way.

We have many races living in Australia, especially races of Asian and Middle Eastern origin. Sometimes I think that there are too many of these people in my country, especially when one particular group is consistently attempting to push their religion and political system upon us. Of course, there are people with the same ethnic background who are Christian. I do not see any of these people to be different from myself, except that some are male and others are female. Skin colour means nothing to me.

If an aboriginal woman was being treated in the same way as Terri was treated then I would not hesitate to blog for her cause, and to stand in protest against an estranged husband who was attempting to murder her.

Anyone who has felt the sting of having someone in the family murdered (especially a rape-murder-suicide) knows that we cannot stand by and allow women to be bullied by others. I am equally outraged when I hear of men from a certain ethnic background murdering their own wives and daughters out of some sense of personal slight. Their attitude is immature and I believe that if they want to be in my country then they need to abide by our rules, not theirs.

What passes for racism today is harmful. The same is true of reverse racism - that is when the victim is the one who holds to racist attitudes but projects those attitudes onto others. We cannot break down the barriers of distrust if we do not deal with those racist attitudes.

In the case of this woman Tirhas, the comment stated that she was dying from cancer. I still think that we cannot rely upon the word of a distraught family who want their loved one to survive and feel that they must project their anger elsewhere. If Tirhas had reached the point where treatment was considered futile, it would not matter if she were black and white, since further treatment would be wasted upon her.

Dying from cancer is an unpleasant experience for the loved ones. I am not being a hypocrite for bringing up my sister's case. It happens that I feel a lot of anger over the way that she was treated, but at an earlier stage, that is she tried to get a diagnosis of what was wrong but no one could be bothered to look for the whole body cause. She went to a gastroenterologist for an examination of her stomach. She was told it was inflamed because of the lack of water. She was told to go home and drink plenty of fluids. The dumb female doctor who told her that totally ignored the fact that my sister could neither eat nor drink when she came to her for assistance. This was the treatment handed out to a white woman!! That is why, at the end of her life, when she was finally diagnosed, it was too late for treatment, and that is why the treatment was refused. She was so frail that she could not have the chemotherapy. What we do not know about Tirhas was her frail condition. She might have reached the stage when to give her more medication would have been more harmful. In such a case it is better to prepare for the death of a loved one. This is the hard reality of our world today.

As for the situation in Louisanna, from what I read, Mayor Nagin bears the primary responsibilty for all of the things that went wrong. He was the one who failed to utilize the school buses so that the blacks could be evacuated from the city in time. He is the one who knocked back the offer from Amtrack to move at least 20,000 citizens out of the area on trains that had to leave New Orleans.

If there is anyone to blame then that person is Mayor Nagin. He was totally incompetent during the whole of that affair. He has a big mouth, and very little in the way of brains. Also, he is the one who made a comment about making New Orleans "chocolate". What kind of talk is that?

Nagin had no right to play the race card in that situation. If he had been at all competent and not so prideful, then he should have accepted all assistance that was offered prior to Katrina hitting the city. There had been plenty of warning and he acted too late. The people who did not leave when they were asked to leave also have to take responsibility for what happened next. Plenty of black people were hauled to safety and no one cared at all about skin colour.

The blacks in this case should shut up and get on with the job of reconstruction. The able bodied should be lining up for the jobs that are available within the building industry as a result of the damage done by Katrina. Enough of this kind of politics. It is just racism.

Maggie

1/27/2006  
Blogger Maggie said...

thank you Bryan for sharing so much of your own background. Wow, that must have been very hard on your family. Your comments have been very noble. I am pleased to meet you.

Maggie

1/27/2006  
Blogger Unknown said...

Bryan,
Thanks for stopping by. I too am glad to get to know you and am honored you shared some of your insight. Maggie, I started on the piece you asked me for, I just had less me time this weekend than I previously expected. But I haven't forgotten you.

I think David is a good guy at heart, he is just misled by the Leftist propaganda wing of the Democratic party. What I am concerned about is that David was so set to divert attention away from the true issue. He has learned from those representing the Liberal agenda that using the race card, no matter how absurd, means he doesn't have to win the argument just divert the focus on us. Liberal activists such as Farrakhan and Jackson have been surprisingly successful using these tactics.
David, I just want you to know that I am not going to let that fly. You can say that we are racists and that Terri's murder was justified. That doesn't address the subject of debate. The point I made in the article was that the Doctors and State governments are too quick to accept findings of PVS and then consider death to be the only option. Many people have been determined to be PVS, yet by the strict definition, very few are truly PVS. The Left says that if you came out of your comma after a PVS label was attached, it must have been a misdiagnosis, however, after a quick assessment of your future quality of life, you must be starved to death. If they are able to kill you soon enough though, you can be a representative of their agenda. What I am saying is that when a person is injured and needs life support and therapy, they should be afforded every treatment and all the time necessary for their recovery. When the left's agenda to force euthanasia on America infringes on our basic fundamental right to LIFE, something has to change. What is it you are in disagreement with. Do you assert that the mean and evil 'right to life crowd' is forcing people to live against their will? You have to know in your heart that we are right. If you sign a will and request 'no' life support and specifically request no feeding tubes, by all means, your wishes should be granted. But in Haleigh's case, and others like her, where her wishes cannot be known, life should be preserved at all costs. If you are a Christian as you say you are, surely you believe it is God's right to determine when we die, not an ex-husband, doctor, lawyer or Judge!
Note that so far, none of us have suggested the wholesale beating of members of the other races. I am beginning to think your racist claim is a little weak.

1/29/2006  
Blogger Maggie said...

How strange, I made a reply and it did not appear.

Ken, these are very wise words indeed. I agree that Haleigh's wishes cannot be known and I believe that the DSS acted way too early based on flawed information.

I believe that this is why the petitioning to the court is in fact flawed. If the doctor has a hidden agenda, that is he/she is a voluntary euthanasia advocate, then there is a tendency to err in favour of giving a prognosis that is the worst possible type. We can see this now in this child's case. The doctor did not give her a chance at survival but she is proving them wrong.

Haleigh's progress is a reflection on why hasty decions, and especially death decisions should not be made until a decent period of time has passed. Otherwise a poor prognosis will be accepted

1/30/2006  
Blogger Unknown said...

So sad to see all this name callling either blantently or disguised ever so subtly.

Hmmmmm. I wish for you all a moment of peace. A moment of clarity. A moment of charity. A moment of compassion.

Stop would you. Just stop. Nothing is ever black and white. Not Haliegh's situation or anything else. No one is entirely innocent and blameless. The most important thing you could do is step down from your individual soapboxes and live according to God's word. Let he who hath not sinned, cast the first stone.

I wasn't going to come back but I wanted to know what was happening to Haliegh. Unfortunately, I don't see much of that here. Just a bunch of hot air.

So sad.

1/30/2006  
Blogger Maggie said...

It is always intriguing to see how some people attempt to stifle debate and discussion by dropping the "let he who has not sinned cast the first stone" style of comment. Yes, I see this as an attempt to stifle the discussion, because the accuser has herself made a statement that fits in with the accusation - that what we have discussed is a load of hot air.

To the contrary, I believe that the level of discussion, including the level of disagreement is quite healthy because we have been able to express our opinions. Pam, on the other hand you chided Ken over the issue of "quality of life". Now you are trying this new card as though you are putting yourself on some other level.

I had further comments to make regarding why the case of Tirhas, though sad, is not one where people who believe in the right to life, would vigorously take it up, except to protest an early termination of her life. My view happens to be that if Tirhas was dying and her body was slowly breaking down as a result of the impact of the cancer, then the prolongation was more harmful to Tirhas, than making the decision to remove the life support. I have known several people who have died as a result of stomach and colon cancer. One man was only 32, and he left a widow and a young son behind (being an accountant, he died perfectly at noon on June 30, which is the end of the Australian Financial Year (even his widow enjoyed the little joke over that one). Only a few short months before Stephen's death, we had celebrated because his cancer had gone into remission. The pneumonia killed him.

Unfortunately, we have to be realistic in these situations because there is a point when further treatment is futile. That is what happened to my sister. The manner in which she had been handled is a disgrace to the medical profession. She ended up getting down to 38kg (or around 100lb). By the time the bone cancer was discovered she was too fragile for treatment. She was told to get her affairs in order and she was dead within a few short weeks of the diagnosis. I wish that she had been given the chance to receive treatment.

The difference happens to be that Haleigh, like Terri Schiavo, and Scott Thomas is not dying. She was in a coma because of her brain injury. My older sister went into a two week coma because of head injuries in 1959 when there was little in the way of technology. She survived the coma, and she continues to be alive today. Imagine, if doctors had decided to write her off when she was only 8 years old. Fortunately, in those days, the doctors respected the pledge that they took to preserve life. Haleigh's doctors proved themselves to be incompetent by giving a poor diagnosis. Now we will just have to wait and see.

1/31/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you done?
Bryan,
I believe that my opinions (and facts) are falling on deaf ears here, so I’ll be brief, for I don’t feel like wasting my time to people who are too apathetic to do their own homework.
I agree with some of the “race card” things you mentioned.
However, you can’t ask me to ignore the constant attempts by corporations and the current (Nixonian i.e. “the southern strategy”) administration to advance the void and create the absence of a strong middle class, of whose components are strong minded, intellectually daft, and diverse.
Lots of people had a terrible and impoverished life growing up, Bryan. That doesn’t make racism evaporate.
You’re simply trying (at great length) to deny that racism exists by implementing a right ring tactic known as the “reverse racism card”.
Let’s go with statistical information (which a lot of you rightists run away from, for some reason, you defy logic…)
According to the US CENSUS BUREAU 27.9% - 60% of all Black Americans live in mostly south eastern states, with the exception of New Jersey, and includes,
(gasp!) Louisiana! (think Katrina and the aftermath and the incompetent Michael Brown’s failed attempt at any sort of rescue effort whatsoever) at 32.5% or 4,468,976 million people.
Mississippi, at 36.3% or 2,844,658 million people (which was also hit by Katrina)
Georgia, at 28.7 % or 8,186,453 million people (Katrina)
S.Carolina at 29.5% or 4,012,012 million people.
New Orleans is one of the poorest cities with a population that is 67% BLACK. For denying them their still prevalent social struggle with inequality, lost opportunities, lost jobs, schooling and health care, you are dismissing the fact that racism and poverty are still related subjects, and by doing so, YOU sir, sound racist, not me.
Nice try on attempting to flip it around on me though, flap jack.
By suggesting that I’m stating that there are no poor white people, is an over generalization and you missed the point completely.
The following comes from a blog / pod cast site, and you can listen to this information for free, (as opposed to Glen Beck or Douche Limbaugh’s sites.)
I’ll even post the address for you, so I suggest you listen to it, or just remain ignorant, I won’t lose sleep over it either way.
http://www.therationalradical.com/2006/01/26-911-workers-poisoned-by-bush-epa.html

“Today I present two additional installments of my continuing series "The 4,978 Ways Right-Wingers Kill" -- kill the innocent, kill the defenseless.

First: George Bush's EPA lied to 9/11 emergency responders and other workers about the environmental poisons they were being exposed to. Sadly, a 9/11 worker just died from such poisoning. Indications are, there will be many more.

Second: When George Bush was governor of Texas, he signed a statute which allows the life support of a patient to be shut off, even if the patient wants it to be kept on! (Sooooooooo, he's a hypocrite. "Culture of Life." Yeah, give me a break, this entire administration makes me SICK.) Those without health insurance are particularly vulnerable. So a Texas woman just had her life support ventilator shut off, despite her objections and the protests of her family. This story will make your hair stand on end.”
Or, Dan Agin from Scienceweek sums it up perfectly, if you prefer ignoring the race issue (which you obviously do);
January 19, 2006
Moral Monsters and the Shame of Baylor University

The medical ethical situation is simple:

A 27-year-old woman, dying of cancer, is being kept alive on a ventilator in the Regional Medical Center of Baylor University at Plano, Texas. The young woman has no health insurance. The hospital authorities decide they will no longer accept the burden of the cost of care, and they inform the young woman's relatives that unless they find another facility to accept the patient, they will unplug the ventilator in ten days. The young woman is fully conscious and she says she does not want to die yet. The relatives are unable to arrange for care in another medical facility, and the hospital staff unplugs the ventilator, which quickly kills the woman.

The patient's name was Tirhas Habtegiris, a legal immigrant, killed by Baylor University on December 12, 2005, the authorities invoking a law signed in 1999 by George W. Bush, then governor of Texas, the law relieving doctors of an obligation to provide life-sustaining treatment 10 days after providing formal notice that such treatment is found to be medically "inappropriate".

This is not a case of a brain-dead patient in a long-existing coma. This is a case of a fully conscious and cognizant young woman who says she does not want to die yet, but who does not have the money to pay what the hospital charges her to run the ventilator that keeps her alive.

Medicine is applied biology, biology is one of the sciences, and our view is that there is not a single scientist working on this planet, at least not anyone who calls himself or herself a "scientist", who is not involved in this case. The hospital, the medical staff, the nursing staff, every piece of medical equipment in the hospital, including that ventilator, are all products of science and scientific labor and the minds and talents of scientists -- and for what? To place in the hands of "authorities" the power to kill people who are unable to pay their medical bills?

Never mind the mirage of "cost-benefit" calculations. No such calculation can withstand rigorous analysis, for the simple reason that costs and benefits cannot be rigorously quantified, and in general the behavior of the "economic individual" is a shaky abstraction in economic theory. There is really no rational justification for killing a human being in such circumstances.

If this is the best our society can do, then our society is broken, corrupted, and hardly a model for societies anywhere at any time or place. And to the extent that scientists in America are part of the scientific enterprise, and the scientific enterprise in turn the basis of the medical enterprise, every scientist needs to devote a few minutes to contemplating this moral monstrosity perpetrated by a major university and medical installation.

What can be done? Endless yakking about these problems apparently gets us nowhere. Maybe what is needed is some vigorous signaling that the biomedical sciences community does not approve. Maybe what is needed is that the entire scientific, medical, and relevant student communities at Baylor University let the "authorities" know that killing people, people who don't want to die, killing them by disconnecting ventilators whose bills are not paid is not condoned by science and medicine -- the science and medicine from which these "authorities" derive their paychecks.

Really, some people in and out of government need to be told to empty out their desks.

Meanwhile, Tirhas Habtegiris, age 27, is dead, and all of us are shamed.

And Baylor University? They bill themselves as the "largest Baptist Christian university in the world".

Pax vobis, Tirhas.

Dan Agin
ScienceWeek
dpa@scienceweek.com

2/03/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maggie,
do you have a Phd?
If not, I'll stop the arguement and admit that you know what you're talking about, when it comes to medical diagnoses. Until then, I'll rely on a professional opinion, a second, and even third opinion, as opposed to yours. Even if you do have a Phd, the situation at hand is not unlike Bill Frist diagnosing Terry from the senate floor.
YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
Any doctor that you disagree with, you immediately label as a quack, or whatever. In Haleighs case, it was the idiot parents that screwed her up, not the doctors. All the doctors are trying to do is apply their medical knowledge to save people, not hurt them. The attention should be paid to all these abusive and neglectful parents that have no business having children in the first place, which might be possible if birth control was easier to obtain.
(Maybe we could abolish abortion then, too.)

2/03/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Correction on the previous :
"If so, then I'll stop the arguement..."

2/03/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bryan,
Thank you for your response.
How Americans, black and white that are getting economically screwed these days will be an addition to my argument, that even the neo-conservatives are taking sides with.
According to the US census, the poverty rate rose to a million more people every year under George Bush, so all together I guess that would make roughly, 5 million more impoverished people, living on the fray.
According to Philip L Swagel from the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), which is a right wing think tank,
“Gains from the recovery haven’t really gone down, yet, have gone to capitol investments and large corporations, and not to workers.”
That sounds almost like Marxism.
10% of people have 70% of all the wealth. Tax cuts, under George Bush, have consistently been underwritten to directly benefit the top 3 or 4 percent richest people in the country.
American capitalism is being turned into a feudal system.
If you are middle class citizen and make under $200,000 a year, and if you voted for George Bush, you inevitably voted against your own best interests.
That’s why I continue to “hate” and “bash” George Bush. (I like to use “facts” and silly little things like “statistics” to back up my reasons for my disagreements of the current administrations social and economic policies, not to mention foreign policies.)

“Roosevelt is dead, his policies live on, but we’re doing something about that as well.”
Irrefutable, isn’t it? That was Rush Limbaugh on the subject of welfare and “reform”.

George Bush cut $30 million for improvement and reconstruction of the levies in Louisiana. He downgraded FEMA to a department level instead of cabinet level federal program, and added incompetent head directors, including Michael Brown, and other various leadership positions within the department as a result of cronyism.
cro·ny·ism P Pronunciation Key (kr ow n ee- iz m)
n.
"Favoritism shown to old friends without regard for their qualifications, as in political appointments to office", (as in the president of the Arabian Horse Breeders…to head the Federal Emergency Management Agency? what ?!)

In addition to all this, Bush cut funding for the preservation of natural wetlands, which are by a geo scientific standard known as natural barriers in cases of hurricanes and storms.
Hurricane Katrina has thrust the twin issues of race and poverty at Bush, who still faces challenges in dealing with both because of a domestic agenda that envisions deep, cuts in long standing anti poverty programs, mainly implemented by Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and relationships with many black leaders frayed by years of mutual suspicion.
In the storm’s aftermath, the White House has been scrambling to quell perceptions that race was a factor in the slow federal response to Katrina and that its policies have contributed to the festering poverty propelled into public view by the disaster.
Angry about how an affiliate of the NAACP portrayed him in a 2000 political ad, Bush has rejected invitations to speak at the organizations past five conventions, making him the first sitting president in more than 80 years not address the group.
But you do make a good point, Bryan, when you imply that more important than the color of their skin, are the contents of their billfold. That is the main reason they were abandoned by their elected officials…money talks. Upper class blacks had no problems escaping, lower class whites did. It must be a class thing, right?
Well, of course you are right, but your statement(s) are not complete. That the face of poverty is overwhelmingly black is no accident, even though more whites are continuously being added to the roles.
That the current US rulers have viscious contempt for the poor is an open secret. That the regime wants to increase their numbers by sending them from the middle class is consistent with their contempt. The poor are needed as a group, but any individual poor person is easily replace by another one, so the supply needs a big enough backlog.
Frankly, the only thing NOLA has changed is that it brought the continuing and powerful underground racism and classicism out from under its slimy republican rock.
You cry “class warfare” as if it doesn’t exist unless we mention it. I can’t see why we want to deny that it is class warfare. It IS, and the administration is winning. We all need to take long looks at the NOLA photos if we don’t believe it.
Right wing pundit John Leo, columnist for U.S. News and World Report, syndicated to newspapers nation wide, wrote a piece that would be forgettable if it didn’t echo a growing sentiment on the right about Hurricane Katrina and issues of race in America.
Basically; “the new conservative line is this: all the talk about how Hurricane Katrina hurt African – Americans is wrong, and is just another example of black folks and progressives playing the “race card”.
Leo’s editorial is a perfect case study of the right’s new approach, showing at once how dangerous and utterly flawed it is.
Leo also goes after “Racial agitators and entertainers,” such as activist and author Randall Robinson’s apparently outrageous claim that Katrina constituted a “defining watershed moment in America’s racial history.”
(Gasp!)
All of these statements, Leo claims, are wrong. Why? Because, according to a December 18 news story in the Los Angeles times, he cites, “The bodies of New Orleans residents killed by Hurricane Katrina were almost as likely to be recovered from middle class neighborhoods as from the city’s poorer districts.”
Using that evidence – and that alone – Leo dismisses any claim that the impact of Katrina was in any way related to race.
Dozens of newspapers took the bait and printed his editorial, to the delight of the right wing blogsphere.
Let’s break down just how ridiculous this is.
First: does a person have to be dead to be a victim? Only 2 of the 11 “agitators” Leo quotes say anything about African – Americans being killed, and none are quoted as believing they were killed disproportionately.
Second, did you notice that Leo’s quote from the LA times never mentions race?
Read the stories lead again:
“The bodies of New Orleans residents killed by Hurricane Katrina were almost as likely to be recovered from middle class neighborhoods as from the city’s poorer districts, such as the Lower 9th Ward, according to a Times analysis of data released by the state of Louisiana.”
In other words, the story is mostly about the income levels – and not the racial make up – of the neighborhoods inhabited by the deceased (and not necessarily the economic status of the dead themselves).
In fact, Leo goes to great lengths to ignore the one paragraph that does talk about race, the only one which would be relevant to his Op Ed. After noting that only 380 bodies could be identified by race, the Times noted:
“Of those 380, the New Orleans Times Picayune reports, “33% of the identified victims in the city are white and 67% are black.”
Doesn’t sound like black folks got off too well to me.
So there you have it, (much like your initial response) an entire right wing narrative about race and Katrina, publicized in media outlets around the country, that is based on a false interpretation of an old and small study that never mentions race, except one paragraph which proves Leo wrong, and only focuses on deaths, not people impacted in other ways. Pretty astounding, even by right-wing attack media standards.
The truth is that the areas of New Orleans that suffered worst of Hurricane Katrina were home to 80 % of its black population, university researchers said, underscoring the difficulties in the city’s struggle to rebuild while preserving its cultural and racial heritage.
The study, one of the most concrete profiles of Katrina victims to come out since the storm occurred, cross referenced the damaged areas had higher concentrations of residents who were black, poor, or renting their homes than did the undamaged areas.

2/06/2006  
Blogger Unknown said...

Alright David, I am sorry to jump in here, but I have to toss in my two cents.
First of all, I read a 'BUTT' load of editorial, news and historical websites. I recognized a few lines in your comment from columns by the likes of Michael Fletcher of the Washington Post and you erased 'Kdog', the name of a commenter on the blog 'The politics of Crime', and cut and pasted the phrase "(kdog), of course you are right, but your statement is not complete. That the face of poverty is overwhelmingly black is no accident, even though more whites are continuously being added to the roles."

You cut and pasted other's comments from other blogs and columns. Here is my problem. When I read your comments I want to hear what you have to say. I want to know what you feel. If I removed every sentence, in your previous comment, that was easily located on other sites, I don't know if we would even have a complete sentence. Come on bubba, we are all smart people around here, you included. We can tell when we are being scammed and we have all heard the contrived arguements these cracked eggs have constructed and you inturn pasted here. I realize you are unsure of yourself and that you desperately want to embrace and put to use, things you percieve tangible; poll statistics and liberal punditry. I have warned you in the past that this stuff is greatly subjectable to error and the only thing you serve by spreading this virus is to distribute propaganda that is hurtful to our nation and our society. You don't need stats and catchy quips that are created only to amuse you and frustrate others. All you need here or anywhere in debate is your own beliefs and convictions presented to the best of your ability. Even if I disagree with them they are still meaningful because they are uniquely yours. If someone else made a great point and you want to quote or paraphrase them, feel free. If you want to discuss the variety of topics here, please do so, but understand that this is not a posting board for the Mainstream Media and Liberal Blogger sites. This is a meeting of the minds, mine, yours, Mama's, Maggie's, Bryan's etc. Not Michael Fletcher. OK?
Earlier you asked me to elaborate on a few positions I hold, such as the death penalty etc. I am so busy these days I just don't have as much time as I wish I did or I would give you an elaborate comment on every issue that exists. Since I can't, why don't you pick one and I will write a post on my blog about it. Or you can write your own and I will write mine and we can post them here. How ever you want to do it, I am fine with it. I love to express my feelings. Just make sure that from now on, when you comment, express your 'own' feelings.

I am not attacking you nor have I commented here to embarrass you. I am simply setting the record straight and inviting you to elevate your debating skills to a higher level. I hope you won't take it personal, and I hope you continue to participate, your thoughts and opinions are always welcome.
As for the challenge (Prove that a war on Christianity, waged by Liberals, exists) that you presented to me; I have, after shortening it by about 40,000 words, finished it. I will post it on the site tomorrow night.

2/07/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ken,
I understand your frustration, and I didn't mean to insult your intellegence or anything. I knew someone would recognize these blog pastes, but they all happen to be things in which I agree with. I usually source my info, don't I? I think that this time I failed to do that, and apologize. I was not trying to be "sneaky" or pull the wool over anyones eyes, because I was telling the truth, and using facts. I don't consider this plagarism because I'm not selling anything. Don't worry, you didn't embarass me or anything, but I appreciate that yuou request my own words and respect that, and I'll take that as a compliment. Well, I'm off to read your updates and continue to spread my "liberal virus" infections.
God bless!

2/09/2006  
Blogger Unknown said...

You do that bubba, I have sterilized the environment here at The Squamata Report by mopping it with a truth and morality fortified opinion.I hope I don't have to tell you that you and your opinions are always welcome here.
I understand what you are trying to say and I am glad you took it as it was intended. If you want to truly ascertain the key to the truth (not the truth as you see it or the truth as I see it, but the actual Truth) and learn to use your convictions to influence others, you must draw on your own heart, mind, and soul to produce the answers. All of us need to look to another source to recall dates and figures and I don't care if you decline to acknowledge a source when you use them. I do think that long quotes and excerpts from others are cumbersome and no one truly wants to argue against a comment or idea if they know it didn't originate with the commenter. It's third person debate that bores and discourages most visitors or would be participants in the debate.
I hope to see you soon, I can always use a little resistance, it makes me stronger.

2/09/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What ever did happen to this little girl?

2/18/2007  
Blogger Unknown said...

Last I have heard she is still alive and doing better. Eating solid foods and such. However a social worker has put her and her condition under a gag order. Nurses and doctors can't talk to anyone even the family about her condition.
I found this:

A Department of Social Services worker, who was monitoring the 15-minute visit, has told the nurse to stop talking to the mother about the girl's condition, said Wendy Murphy, a Boston lawyer who represents Allison Avrett, who is Poutre's biological mother.

''Silence and secrecy has been the most frustrating component of this case," Murphy said yesterday. ''It just seems inhumane that information about this child can be forbidden on the theory that it's somehow protecting her privacy, when you consider that this child almost died under the state's care."

The Department of Social Services gave Poutre's mother and grandmother permission to visit the hospital every two weeks starting last fall, after they signed a confidentiality agreement that bars them from asking about the girl's condition and making public statements on the subject.

3/03/2007  

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